[ILUG] Redhat taking all my money

[Conor Wynne]

On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 19:12, Darren Burnett wrote: 
> What a day.  I've been pushing Linux for a long time in work.  We eventually 
> went RH AS 2.1 over a year ago.  At the time we purchased one boxed CD and 
> installed on approx 7 servers.  We used up2date to keep systems up to date 
> (had to purchase additional lics).  As time went by we 'forgot' to update our 
> systems.  Lazy Sysadminitis had set in.  Now as more of our systems go Linux 
> I thought it prudent to keep our systems up dated.  I tried up2date.  No 
> luck.  Our systems had expired.  So we went and purchased 15 Redhat 
> management lics.  Still up2date wouldn't work.

Are you sure that it was not simply the redhat cert that expired, this has generated a 
few calls for me. The new one is @ https://rhn.redhat.com AFAIR - I'm still on holidays :)

(It could well be expired, worth a look though)

>   Contacted Redhat in Ireland.  
> It turns out that according to them we should pay for every install to be 
> able to use up2date. 

Correct, to be able to use _up2date_ from the _each_ server.

>  I had thought that we could install and just pay for 
> updates.  Anyway they have recommended that I down grade to ES which makes 
> sense as we only use 2 processors and never more than 4 gigs ram. 

Yes, ES is certainly cheaper for two processors. 

> So here is my gripe, it will cost €269 per server to be able to receive 
> updates.  If we had chosen the path to migrate those NT boxes to W2K3 it 
> would have cost €555 but this would have covered updates by my reckoning 
> until 2010.  So one W2K3 until 2010 costs €555 where as RedHat will cost 
> €1883?  

"Whohoo" I hear Bill Gates cry, I have won the TCO argument!

I am _fairly_ sure that this is unnecessary, you can either download em
from one box via up2date (the one you actually paid for), and apply them
to other boxen manually. 
Or, go to https://rhn.redhat.com , login with your id & passwd, and
download the rpm's via tarball.

Anyone know otherwise please let me know.

> > They'll all want you to pay.
> >
> > If you can manage support (apparently so), try Fedora or Debian.

In a production environment? Good luck to you so. (from a support view,
not because they are crap or anything)

> The only 'problem' with these is that if there is an issue with an Oracle 
> database, Oracle will have nothing to do with it as it isn't installed on a 
> supported OS

Exactly, this can be a mega issue and getting volunteers from a list
will be _hard_. I work in support, deal with Oracle/EMC/Suse/Redhat(and
the beast) on a regular basis, as long as _all_ the components are
supported by each vendor, everyone is happy. Personally I never turn
people away for using debian or whiteboxlinux et al, however, I am
sometimes left stuck on my own to help the customer out because of this.
Oracle _may_ say "Sorry, not supported, hows you DB fixing skills?"
Some customers simply lie and say, "yes I am running such and such", but
when I get the logs to troubleshoot it, I can see clear as day what
distro it really is - We require a sysreport which contain all the Gorey
details :)

> Time to look at other vendors.  As we use NetWare,  SUSE would definitely be 
> an option.  

---Start of Rant---
I am trying desperately to like yast2, so far its just doing my nut. 

A few days ago, I added the nvidia closed source drivers (following
yasts instructions "Install the drivers, then come back to yast and
check the enable 3D option". Well it doesn't work, no matter what
concoction I tried. I eventually gave up using yast and did it the
normal way. The other problem is the wheel on my mouse. It just does not
want to work correctly. Even when I copy the config files from another
box which _works_ with _exactly_ the same mouse model!!!!
---End of Rant---

Saying this, I know that tons of people swear by SUSE. Niall, you're
still a big fan right? 

I do really like the sun Java desktop (what I am using to write this
now) but its not a server as such, OK it _can_ be, like any linux
distro. I have added apt repositories for SUSE (its based on SUSE 8.1)
(I still wouldn't install oracle on it) 

> What other vendors would you recommend?  It is important that Oracle and Lotus 
> would support these distros.

See here for lotus, and below for Oracle. 
http://www.lotus.com/products/product4.nsf/wdocs/c02faee3ec8c38e685256db7005278c0

And what about your hardware manufacturer? What do _they_ support? 
What if the issue with with ocfs and the kernel you are running on your
unsupported distribution?  Or maybe ocfs and the firmware on your raid
controller or whatnot? 

Colm MacCarthaigh hath declared on Thursday the 26 day of August 2004 -:
> > On Thu, Aug 26, 2004 at 07:38:25PM +0100, Darren Burnett wrote:
> > > What I am looking for is a well supported distro that doesn't cost an arm and 
> > > a leg to keep updated.  
> 
> > Debian, utterly keep-up-to-date-able, very well supported.

Yes, good stuff it is indeed. Well supported. But how many deb heads 
will solve an Oracle DB issue for you? Will they come onsite? 
Can they be trusted to connect remotely? 
i.e.: do you know the person? 

I wouldn't worry about an oracle tech connecting to fix my database :)

> I concur... Oracle don't care... *shrug*

Not true, checkout Oracle's stance on supported distros:
http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/linux/htdocs/oracleonlinux_faq.html#Which%20Distributions

Now I am off to bed, I have to bring the kids to the botanical gardens
tomorrow: I need some ideas for my new terrarium/vivarium/aquarium.
Q: Anyone have one with pics on the web? Google ain't helping me with
this particular combo. zillions of individual examples, but no combos:(

Q: Anyone know what bus goes to the botanical gardens? I cannot fit 3 to
5 kids on my R6 - the wife said no :)

Best regards,
Conor.

Please excuse any punctuation/spelling/whatever errors, but this
keyboard is well dodgy :)