[ILUG] OpenERP demo server

Mon Oct 3 11:36:16 IST 2011

 OK

Launchpad project is here:

https://launchpad.net/openerp-ireland

Launchpad group is here:

https://launchpad.net/~openerp-ireland

first post in discussion group on Mike's Alfresco is here:

http://alfresco.reviveyourpc.ie/share/page/site/openerp/discussions-topicview?topicId=post-1317635225125_36&listViewLinkBack=true

cheers

Bernhard

----------------original message-----------------
From: "Michael Kennedy" Info at KennedySoftware.ie
To: ilug at linux.ie
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2011 22:19:55 +0100
-------------------------------------------------

>> with all the discussion going on here and Mike's Alfresco share, do we want to
>> found a working group with a view to Irishising OpenERP? There are many such
>> localisation groups, they susually live on launchpad, at least partly.
>>
>> Who'd be interested?
>
> Deal!
>
> Anyone know if anyone in Ireland already uses/represents/supports
> OpenERP? Or, if nobody knows, can we (presumably Bernhard!) post a
> message in the OpenERP forums seeking such info...
>
> - Mike
>
>> ----------------original message-----------------
>> From: "Bernhard Rohrer" graylion at sm-wg.net
>> To: "Colin Rooney" colin.rooney at gmail.com , ilug at linux.ie
>> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 11:32:40 +0100
>> -------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> OK, I had a look at the live demo of Adempiere and it appears to be not as
>>> powerful as
>>> openERP from what I see. The interface is actually somewhat less cryptic,
>>> but I am
>>> missing project management and a lot of functionality in the CRM, but
>>> these are
>>> the areas that i have looked at most in OpenERP.
>>>
>>> As for migration, yes OpenERP SA will sell you scripts, but there are also
>>> community scripts available.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>> Bernhard
>>>
>>> ----------------original message-----------------
>>> From: "Bernhard Rohrer" graylion at sm-wg.net
>>> To: "Colin Rooney" colin.rooney at gmail.com , ilug at linux.ie
>>> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 08:53:44 +0100
>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>> Interesting :)
>>>>
>>>> Now OpenERP is certainly not for the smallest companies any more - you
>>>> can use
>>>> it,
>>>> but if you are a 3 employee shop and intend to stay that way
>>>> FrontAccounting is
>>>> probably better for you.
>>>>
>>>> I'll admit that I never had a closer look at Adempiere, but given that it
>>>> is
>>>> based on
>>>> Compiere and hence java it does not strike me as lightweight.
>>>>
>>>> OpenERP has the multilanguage UI and can defo do up to serious
>>>> mid-size
>>>> business.
>>>> It just got selected by Danone for some of their smaller companies
>>>> where SAP
>>>> would
>>>> be overkill. What I like about OpenERP is that it has bucketloads of
>>>> extensions
>>>> and is lightweight and written in python.
>>>>
>>>> My reasoning for Ireland is that we can probably cover every Irish
>>>> company
>>>> with
>>>> openERP. And let's face it, a slick UI is important in order to sell the
>>>> product,
>>>> especially to small companies. As are lots of contributions for
>>>> specific
>>>> uses. I
>>>> had a short glance at the Apache project but no further. Will remedy
>>>> that for
>>>> both
>>>> products.
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>>
>>>> Bernhard
>>>>
>>>> PS: This discussion is certainly staying interesting ! :o)
>>>>
>>>> ----------------original message-----------------
>>>> From: "Colin Rooney" colin.rooney at gmail.com
>>>> To: ilug at linux.ie
>>>> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 08:13:04 +0100
>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Unless someone advises us otherwise, can we proceed on the
>>>>>> basis that
>>>>>> OpenERP is "as good as it gets" - compared to other "Cloud"
>>>>>> systems...
>>>>>> Eg, Xero, KashFlow, FrontAccounting, FreeAgent/Iris
>>>>>> Openbooks,
>>>>>> GNUCash,
>>>>>> xTuple, LedgerSMB, TurboCash, SQL-Ledger, SageOne,
>>>>>> PostBooks,
>>>>>> OpenBravo,
>>>>>> Adempiere, WebERP, GnuAccounting - to name but a few ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Firstly let me say I was one of the founders of Adempiere so I am
>>>>> bound
>>>>> to be biased!
>>>>>
>>>>> But I like to think I am always open minded so I've always kept an eye
>>>>> on what the other open ERP projects do. Now, admittedly, it's been
>>>>> a
>>>>> while since I looked in detail at openERP but the last time I did I
>>>>> found its list of functionality broad but shallow in comparison
>>>>> to
>>>>> Adempiere.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also remember a discussion of Adempiere Vs. OpenERP, years ago,
>>>>> in the
>>>>> Adempiere forums and one of the points that came out were there
>>>>> were
>>>>> 100s of plugins for OpenERP but on close inspection many "plugins"
>>>>> were
>>>>> adding additional fields... something that takes a couple of
>>>>> minutes in
>>>>> adempiere and is managed via an Administration UI.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I admit that their UI is a lot slicker... now the Adempiere UI is
>>>>> easily translated and this ability is one of the reason behind the
>>>>> simplicty. When I say translated, one installation could be used
>>>>> in
>>>>> multiple languages at the same time... a German using a German UI
>>>>> and an
>>>>> Irish with a English UI for example. There is also a mechanism to
>>>>> have
>>>>> the data translated, and documents can be translated and they are
>>>>> printed in the language defined for the person who the document is
>>>>> sent
>>>>> to. So it's not just the UI that is translated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another reason is the Adempiere UI is dynamic, depending on your
>>>>> user,
>>>>> role, the function you are doing or just other field value entered,
>>>>> the
>>>>> UI can change to add and/or remove fields.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now none of that is important to a small or micro businesses in
>>>>> Ireland
>>>>> [unless you wanted to make like easy for foreign staff perhaps :)]
>>>>> I
>>>>> know, but was just explaining the reasoning.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course the slick UI of openERP has come from a lot of investment
>>>>> from
>>>>> the company behind openERP. Adempiere is purely community driven
>>>>> so the
>>>>> big, costly, advances are slower to be contributed. They do
>>>>> happen
>>>>> though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, Adempiere was forked from Compiere, in 2006, another
>>>>> commercial
>>>>> open source project which has now been sold and is gone!
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the techniques Compiere used to raise revenue was it charged
>>>>> for
>>>>> migration. I'm sure we're all aware that in open source it's
>>>>> important
>>>>> be able to keep up to date but frequent updating of your core ERP
>>>>> system
>>>>> is not the norm. It touches so many aspects of a business that once
>>>>> installed& working people try to touch it as little of possible -
>>>>> less
>>>>> risk!
>>>>> But, as anybody who uses open source will know and in particular
>>>>> open
>>>>> source with a public internet face - security issues means you
>>>>> must
>>>>> continuously keep up to date.
>>>>>
>>>>> Adempiere releases LTS versions and patches are retrofitted to
>>>>> those for
>>>>> a number of years. And if and when you do decide to migrate it is
>>>>> free!
>>>>> What is the migration policy for openERP? I think it was like the
>>>>> Compiere model the last time I looked, i.e. you must buy a support
>>>>> package to get access to migration scripts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I know Adempiere is not perfect - but at least it belongs to
>>>>> everyone and not to a "for now" benign company. I think we've seen a
>>>>> few
>>>>> examples of the risks this poses in the FLOSS world in recent
>>>>> years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now to muddy the waters even more and say if I couldn't use
>>>>> Adempiere
>>>>> (and sometimes even when I could) I would lean towards the Apache
>>>>> Open
>>>>> for Business [OfBiz] project. Again completely open with zero
>>>>> risk of
>>>>> it becoming closed. The Apache license might even suit some over
>>>>> the
>>>>> GPL of Admepiere. Adempiere has great a functional design - but
>>>>> OfBiz's
>>>>> technical design is superb, if somewhat complicated at first
>>>>> glance.
>>>>> When I consider this project is probably 10 years old the design
>>>>> has
>>>>> stood the test of time and its SOA like architecture proved to be
>>>>> way
>>>>> ahead of everyone else - if e-commerce was an important aspect of an
>>>>> ERP
>>>>> implementation I would be leaning strongly in this direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I say, look closely at the functionality of openERP&
>>>>> Adempiere...
>>>>> and in particular at the depth of the actual functionality as
>>>>> opposed to a;
>>>>> Sales Check,
>>>>> Purchases Check,
>>>>> Accounting Check,
>>>>> type of comparison.
>>>>> I would be surprised if the openERP could do all Adempiere can.
>>>>> It's
>>>>> all in the details!
>>>>>
>>>>> Mind you if the target were very small companies then perhaps
>>>>> openERP
>>>>> provides all that is required and anything more complicated is a
>>>>> hindrance rather than an advantage!?
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, I've said here before I know Admepiere pretty much inside
>>>>> out
>>>>> (though I've, sadly, not done much work with it in over a year at
>>>>> this
>>>>> stage) and I know the technical aspects of OfBiz well too - so if
>>>>> anyone
>>>>> is interested in knowing more I would gladly share what I know to do
>>>>> my
>>>>> bit to help promote more these truly open projects here in
>>>>> Ireland.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Colin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19/09/11 16:34, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/09/2011 13:23, Bernhard Rohrer wrote:
>>>>>>> actually I would do all my accounting in OpenERP, since it
>>>>>>> allows
>>>>>>> for cost accounting and project based accounting and cash
>>>>>>> flow
>>>>>>> forecasts and a lot of other things that I really really
>>>>>>> want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Super...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unless someone advises us otherwise, can we proceed on the
>>>>>> basis that
>>>>>> OpenERP is "as good as it gets" - compared to other "Cloud"
>>>>>> systems...
>>>>>> Eg, Xero, KashFlow, FrontAccounting, FreeAgent/Iris
>>>>>> Openbooks,
>>>>>> GNUCash,
>>>>>> xTuple, LedgerSMB, TurboCash, SQL-Ledger, SageOne,
>>>>>> PostBooks,
>>>>>> OpenBravo,
>>>>>> Adempiere, WebERP, GnuAccounting - to name but a few ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eg, does OpenERP handle all our basic VAT needs - perhaps with
>>>>>> add-ins...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _but_ we also need a way to dump all that info so the
>>>>>>> accountant can
>>>>>>> properly massage it and present it to revenue
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Technically, that should be simple...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. We need a mechanism to get at the data in OpenERP. It's very
>>>>>> likely
>>>>>> that OpenERP has "export" facilities - which allow the user to
>>>>>> dump all
>>>>>> the requested data from the OpenERP DB into some standard
>>>>>> format, such
>>>>>> as CSV, Excel, etc. If not, I expect the DB structures inside
>>>>>> OpenERP
>>>>>> are "standard" (I've not checked - perhaps MySQL, PostGreSQL,
>>>>>> etc) -
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> which case it should still be easy to extract whatever we
>>>>>> need... If
>>>>>> neither option is available, then, in an emergency, we could
>>>>>> "reverse-engineer" the internal filing systems, but that's
>>>>>> getting
>>>>>> serious!, and surely not necessary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Then, we need to identify which "Accounting/Auditing"
>>>>>> systems are
>>>>>> used by the Accountants, and what "Import" facilities are
>>>>>> available -
>>>>>> perhaps CSV files; perhaps databases from "sister"
>>>>>> bookkeeping
>>>>>> systems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Finally, we'd need to re-jig the OpenERP data into the
>>>>>> latter. That
>>>>>> should be a simple task, if both of the data-formats are well
>>>>>> defined.
>>>>>> (I can certainly handle that aspect - if needed).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> M.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------original message-----------------
>>>>>>> From: "Michael Kennedy" Info at kennedysoftware.ie
>>>>>>> To: "Harry Duncan" usr.src.linux at gmail.com
>>>>>>> CC: ilug at linux.ie
>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:58:38 +0100
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I worked on a project where we implemented the ROS
>>>>>>>>> XML
>>>>>>>>> schema's
>>>>>>>>> previously, for something like VAT it is simple and
>>>>>>>>> quick
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> larger forms it is quite tedious eg corporation tax
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> income
>>>>>>>>> tax.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, your experience ties in exactly with what I would
>>>>>>>> expect.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And, just on the VAT support, an important aspect would
>>>>>>>> be the
>>>>>>>> internal
>>>>>>>> VAT features in the app (rather than the extracts for
>>>>>>>> Revenue).
>>>>>>>> Eg,
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>> to handle changes in VAT-rates, support for the
>>>>>>>> Cash-Accounting
>>>>>>>> schemes,
>>>>>>>> support for exempt customers or suppliers, exported
>>>>>>>> goods/services, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would question though the value in having a
>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>>>>> solution, I've been doing a demo test of openerp for
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> business
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> the goal is not to provide a full integrated accounts
>>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> rather to use OpenERP for supply chain through to
>>>>>>>>> sales and
>>>>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>>>> sales
>>>>>>>>> support tool, dump invoice lists out of openerp for
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> accountant
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> import into their book keeping to handle all the tax
>>>>>>>>> compliance
>>>>>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are distinct advantages from a revenue audit
>>>>>>>>> perspective to
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> having a totally integrated solution/ Seems that it
>>>>>>>>> is an
>>>>>>>>> expectation
>>>>>>>>> of revenue that they can now take a complete dump of
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> accounts
>>>>>>>>> system to electronically analyse and they have put
>>>>>>>>> quite a
>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> money into software for this purpose. If you run a
>>>>>>>>> fully
>>>>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>>>>> system you're a lamb to the slaughter and will be the
>>>>>>>>> largest
>>>>>>>>> repayer
>>>>>>>>> of bank bailouts for years to come, keep your
>>>>>>>>> accounting
>>>>>>>>> practices
>>>>>>>>> business unit focused and you're back to the playing
>>>>>>>>> court
>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> provide complete accounts and they do the footwork
>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>> calculator
>>>>>>>>> in an audit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Very good points, Harry. Thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, the Accountant probably already has Accounting
>>>>>>>> systems
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> whatever features (s)he requires -
>>>>>>>> auditing/accounting
>>>>>>>> features,
>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>>> to ROS/CRO, etc, etc, (eg, Apex). In that case, the
>>>>>>>> requirement
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> to automate the transfer of the data/transactions
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> OpenERP to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> A/c system, rather than to have to manually re-key the
>>>>>>>> data.
>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> be quite easy, technically:
>>>>>>>> - get the data out of OpenERP, perhaps in a CSV or "Excel"
>>>>>>>> format
>>>>>>>> - re-hash that into the structures needed for the
>>>>>>>> Import
>>>>>>>> options of
>>>>>>>> the accounting systems.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Another colleague of mine who downloaded the
>>>>>>>>> OpenERP
>>>>>>>>> package
>>>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>>> than me was contacted by a partner in Kerry. They
>>>>>>>>> clearly got
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> lead
>>>>>>>>> from the OpenERP guys, but aren't listed on the site
>>>>>>>>> yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also did not notice any mentions of Irish agents, etc,
>>>>>>>> in my
>>>>>>>> OpenERP
>>>>>>>> searches.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But, in case it's a whole waste of time, first we'd
>>>>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>>>>> ensure
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> there's no other similar FOSS "Cloud" system out
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>> already implemented!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not an issue. Everybody knows somebody who's had a
>>>>>>>>> hotmail /
>>>>>>>>> yahoo
>>>>>>>>> /
>>>>>>>>> gmail account hacked / hijacked. Translate that
>>>>>>>>> scenario
>>>>>>>>> to a
>>>>>>>>> cloud
>>>>>>>>> accounting solution. Until cloud solutions are
>>>>>>>>> based on
>>>>>>>>> strong
>>>>>>>>> token
>>>>>>>>> based authentication businesses would be mad to
>>>>>>>>> expose
>>>>>>>>> themselves to
>>>>>>>>> that degree.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oooppss... I misled you - I was referring to the VAT
>>>>>>>> features,
>>>>>>>> etc,
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> OpenERP. I meant that we should try to check if someone
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>> implemented the VAT stuff, ROS interfaces, etc, in
>>>>>>>> OpenERP
>>>>>>>> (but is
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> here on ILUG), or if these features are already in some
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> FOSS/Cloud
>>>>>>>> systems similar to OpenERP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Mike
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>>>>>>>> About this list :
>>>>>>>> http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>>>>>>>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>>>>>>>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>>>>> About this list :
>>>>> http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>>>>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>>>>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -------------
>>>> Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
>>>> 529 Howth Road
>>>> Dublin 5, Ireland
>>>>
>>>> +353 87 7907 134
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>>>> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>>>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>>>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> -------------
>>> Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
>>> 529 Howth Road
>>> Dublin 5, Ireland
>>>
>>> +353 87 7907 134
>>>
>>> --
>>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>>> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>>
>>
>> --
>> -------------
>> Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
>> 529 Howth Road
>> Dublin 5, Ireland
>>
>> +353 87 7907 134
>>
> --
> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>

--
-------------
Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
529 Howth Road
Dublin 5, Ireland

+353 87 7907 134