[ILUG] OpenERP demo server

Wed Sep 28 11:32:40 IST 2011

 OK, I had a look at the live demo of Adempiere and it appears to be not as powerful as openERP from what I see. The interface is actually somewhat less cryptic, but I am missing project management and a lot of functionality in the CRM, but these are the areas that i have looked at most in OpenERP.

As for migration, yes OpenERP SA will sell you scripts, but there are also community scripts available.

cheers

Bernhard

----------------original message-----------------
From: "Bernhard Rohrer" graylion at sm-wg.net
To: "Colin Rooney" colin.rooney at gmail.com , ilug at linux.ie
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 08:53:44 +0100
-------------------------------------------------

> Interesting :)
>
> Now OpenERP is certainly not for the smallest companies any more - you can use it,
> but if you are a 3 employee shop and intend to stay that way FrontAccounting is
> probably better for you.
>
> I'll admit that I never had a closer look at Adempiere, but given that it is based on
> Compiere and hence java it does not strike me as lightweight.
>
> OpenERP has the multilanguage UI and can defo do up to serious mid-size business.
> It just got selected by Danone for some of their smaller companies where SAP would
> be overkill. What I like about OpenERP is that it has bucketloads of extensions
> and is lightweight and written in python.
>
> My reasoning for Ireland is that we can probably cover every Irish company with
> openERP. And let's face it, a slick UI is important in order to sell the product,
> especially to small companies. As are lots of contributions for specific uses. I
> had a short glance at the Apache project but no further. Will remedy that for both
> products.
>
> cheers
>
> Bernhard
>
> PS: This discussion is certainly staying interesting ! :o)
>
> ----------------original message-----------------
> From: "Colin Rooney" colin.rooney at gmail.com
> To: ilug at linux.ie
> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 08:13:04 +0100
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>> Unless someone advises us otherwise, can we proceed on the basis that
>>> OpenERP is "as good as it gets" - compared to other "Cloud" systems...
>>> Eg, Xero, KashFlow, FrontAccounting, FreeAgent/Iris Openbooks,
>>> GNUCash,
>>> xTuple, LedgerSMB, TurboCash, SQL-Ledger, SageOne, PostBooks,
>>> OpenBravo,
>>> Adempiere, WebERP, GnuAccounting - to name but a few ;-)
>>
>>
>> Firstly let me say I was one of the founders of Adempiere so I am bound
>> to be biased!
>>
>> But I like to think I am always open minded so I've always kept an eye
>> on what the other open ERP projects do. Now, admittedly, it's been a
>> while since I looked in detail at openERP but the last time I did I
>> found its list of functionality broad but shallow in comparison to
>> Adempiere.
>>
>> I also remember a discussion of Adempiere Vs. OpenERP, years ago, in the
>> Adempiere forums and one of the points that came out were there were
>> 100s of plugins for OpenERP but on close inspection many "plugins" were
>> adding additional fields... something that takes a couple of minutes in
>> adempiere and is managed via an Administration UI.
>>
>> But I admit that their UI is a lot slicker... now the Adempiere UI is
>> easily translated and this ability is one of the reason behind the
>> simplicty. When I say translated, one installation could be used in
>> multiple languages at the same time... a German using a German UI and an
>> Irish with a English UI for example. There is also a mechanism to have
>> the data translated, and documents can be translated and they are
>> printed in the language defined for the person who the document is sent
>> to. So it's not just the UI that is translated.
>>
>> Another reason is the Adempiere UI is dynamic, depending on your user,
>> role, the function you are doing or just other field value entered, the
>> UI can change to add and/or remove fields.
>>
>> Now none of that is important to a small or micro businesses in Ireland
>> [unless you wanted to make like easy for foreign staff perhaps :)] I
>> know, but was just explaining the reasoning.
>>
>> Of course the slick UI of openERP has come from a lot of investment from
>> the company behind openERP. Adempiere is purely community driven so the
>> big, costly, advances are slower to be contributed. They do happen though.
>>
>> Now, Adempiere was forked from Compiere, in 2006, another commercial
>> open source project which has now been sold and is gone!
>>
>> One of the techniques Compiere used to raise revenue was it charged for
>> migration. I'm sure we're all aware that in open source it's important
>> be able to keep up to date but frequent updating of your core ERP system
>> is not the norm. It touches so many aspects of a business that once
>> installed & working people try to touch it as little of possible - less
>> risk!
>> But, as anybody who uses open source will know and in particular open
>> source with a public internet face - security issues means you must
>> continuously keep up to date.
>>
>> Adempiere releases LTS versions and patches are retrofitted to those for
>> a number of years. And if and when you do decide to migrate it is free!
>> What is the migration policy for openERP? I think it was like the
>> Compiere model the last time I looked, i.e. you must buy a support
>> package to get access to migration scripts.
>>
>> Now I know Adempiere is not perfect - but at least it belongs to
>> everyone and not to a "for now" benign company. I think we've seen a few
>> examples of the risks this poses in the FLOSS world in recent years.
>>
>> Now to muddy the waters even more and say if I couldn't use Adempiere
>> (and sometimes even when I could) I would lean towards the Apache Open
>> for Business [OfBiz] project. Again completely open with zero risk of
>> it becoming closed. The Apache license might even suit some over the
>> GPL of Admepiere. Adempiere has great a functional design - but OfBiz's
>> technical design is superb, if somewhat complicated at first glance.
>> When I consider this project is probably 10 years old the design has
>> stood the test of time and its SOA like architecture proved to be way
>> ahead of everyone else - if e-commerce was an important aspect of an ERP
>> implementation I would be leaning strongly in this direction.
>>
>> So I say, look closely at the functionality of openERP & Adempiere...
>> and in particular at the depth of the actual functionality as opposed to a;
>> Sales Check,
>> Purchases Check,
>> Accounting Check,
>> type of comparison.
>> I would be surprised if the openERP could do all Adempiere can. It's
>> all in the details!
>>
>> Mind you if the target were very small companies then perhaps openERP
>> provides all that is required and anything more complicated is a
>> hindrance rather than an advantage!?
>>
>> Finally, I've said here before I know Admepiere pretty much inside out
>> (though I've, sadly, not done much work with it in over a year at this
>> stage) and I know the technical aspects of OfBiz well too - so if anyone
>> is interested in knowing more I would gladly share what I know to do my
>> bit to help promote more these truly open projects here in Ireland.
>>
>>
>> Colin
>>
>>
>> On 19/09/11 16:34, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>> On 19/09/2011 13:23, Bernhard Rohrer wrote:
>>>> actually I would do all my accounting in OpenERP, since it allows
>>>> for cost accounting and project based accounting and cash flow
>>>> forecasts and a lot of other things that I really really want.
>>>
>>> Super...
>>>
>>> Unless someone advises us otherwise, can we proceed on the basis that
>>> OpenERP is "as good as it gets" - compared to other "Cloud" systems...
>>> Eg, Xero, KashFlow, FrontAccounting, FreeAgent/Iris Openbooks,
>>> GNUCash,
>>> xTuple, LedgerSMB, TurboCash, SQL-Ledger, SageOne, PostBooks,
>>> OpenBravo,
>>> Adempiere, WebERP, GnuAccounting - to name but a few ;-)
>>>
>>> Eg, does OpenERP handle all our basic VAT needs - perhaps with add-ins...
>>>
>>>> _but_ we also need a way to dump all that info so the accountant can
>>>> properly massage it and present it to revenue
>>>
>>> Technically, that should be simple...
>>>
>>> 1. We need a mechanism to get at the data in OpenERP. It's very likely
>>> that OpenERP has "export" facilities - which allow the user to dump all
>>> the requested data from the OpenERP DB into some standard format, such
>>> as CSV, Excel, etc. If not, I expect the DB structures inside OpenERP
>>> are "standard" (I've not checked - perhaps MySQL, PostGreSQL, etc) - in
>>> which case it should still be easy to extract whatever we need... If
>>> neither option is available, then, in an emergency, we could
>>> "reverse-engineer" the internal filing systems, but that's getting
>>> serious!, and surely not necessary.
>>>
>>> 2. Then, we need to identify which "Accounting/Auditing" systems are
>>> used by the Accountants, and what "Import" facilities are available -
>>> perhaps CSV files; perhaps databases from "sister" bookkeeping
>>> systems.
>>>
>>> 3. Finally, we'd need to re-jig the OpenERP data into the latter. That
>>> should be a simple task, if both of the data-formats are well defined.
>>> (I can certainly handle that aspect - if needed).
>>>
>>> M.
>>>
>>>> ----------------original message-----------------
>>>> From: "Michael Kennedy" Info at kennedysoftware.ie
>>>> To: "Harry Duncan" usr.src.linux at gmail.com
>>>> CC: ilug at linux.ie
>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:58:38 +0100
>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I worked on a project where we implemented the ROS XML schema's
>>>>>> previously, for something like VAT it is simple and quick but
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> larger forms it is quite tedious eg corporation tax and income
>>>>>> tax.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, your experience ties in exactly with what I would expect.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, just on the VAT support, an important aspect would be the
>>>>> internal
>>>>> VAT features in the app (rather than the extracts for Revenue). Eg,
>>>>> how
>>>>> to handle changes in VAT-rates, support for the Cash-Accounting
>>>>> schemes,
>>>>> support for exempt customers or suppliers, exported
>>>>> goods/services, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would question though the value in having a completely
>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>> solution, I've been doing a demo test of openerp for a business
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the goal is not to provide a full integrated accounts system but
>>>>>> rather to use OpenERP for supply chain through to sales and as a
>>>>>> sales
>>>>>> support tool, dump invoice lists out of openerp for the
>>>>>> accountant
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> import into their book keeping to handle all the tax compliance
>>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are distinct advantages from a revenue audit
>>>>>> perspective to
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> having a totally integrated solution/ Seems that it is an
>>>>>> expectation
>>>>>> of revenue that they can now take a complete dump of your
>>>>>> accounts
>>>>>> system to electronically analyse and they have put quite a bit
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> money into software for this purpose. If you run a fully
>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>> system you're a lamb to the slaughter and will be the largest
>>>>>> repayer
>>>>>> of bank bailouts for years to come, keep your accounting
>>>>>> practices
>>>>>> business unit focused and you're back to the playing court
>>>>>> where
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> provide complete accounts and they do the footwork with a
>>>>>> calculator
>>>>>> in an audit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very good points, Harry. Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, the Accountant probably already has Accounting systems
>>>>> with
>>>>> whatever features (s)he requires - auditing/accounting
>>>>> features,
>>>>> links
>>>>> to ROS/CRO, etc, etc, (eg, Apex). In that case, the requirement
>>>>> would
>>>>> be
>>>>> to automate the transfer of the data/transactions from OpenERP to
>>>>> the
>>>>> A/c system, rather than to have to manually re-key the data. That
>>>>> should
>>>>> be quite easy, technically:
>>>>> - get the data out of OpenERP, perhaps in a CSV or "Excel" format
>>>>> - re-hash that into the structures needed for the Import options of
>>>>> the accounting systems.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Another colleague of mine who downloaded the OpenERP package
>>>>>> later
>>>>>> than me was contacted by a partner in Kerry. They clearly got the
>>>>>> lead
>>>>>> from the OpenERP guys, but aren't listed on the site yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also did not notice any mentions of Irish agents, etc, in my
>>>>> OpenERP
>>>>> searches.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, in case it's a whole waste of time, first we'd need to
>>>>>>> ensure
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there's no other similar FOSS "Cloud" system out there with
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>> already implemented!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not an issue. Everybody knows somebody who's had a hotmail /
>>>>>> yahoo
>>>>>> /
>>>>>> gmail account hacked / hijacked. Translate that scenario to a
>>>>>> cloud
>>>>>> accounting solution. Until cloud solutions are based on
>>>>>> strong
>>>>>> token
>>>>>> based authentication businesses would be mad to expose
>>>>>> themselves to
>>>>>> that degree.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oooppss... I misled you - I was referring to the VAT features, etc,
>>>>> in
>>>>> OpenERP. I meant that we should try to check if someone had already
>>>>> implemented the VAT stuff, ROS interfaces, etc, in OpenERP (but is
>>>>> not
>>>>> here on ILUG), or if these features are already in some other
>>>>> FOSS/Cloud
>>>>> systems similar to OpenERP.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Mike
>>>>> --
>>>>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>>>>> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>>>>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>>>>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>>>>
>>>>
>> --
>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>
>
> --
> -------------
> Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
> 529 Howth Road
> Dublin 5, Ireland
>
> +353 87 7907 134
>
> --
> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>

--
-------------
Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
529 Howth Road
Dublin 5, Ireland

+353 87 7907 134